Last year, Freedom’s Hill co-founder Chad Chisholm edited and released a posthumous collection of his friend Marc Ridge’s stories. In part 1 of our conversation about the book, we talked about Ridge the man and how Chisholm came to edit his work. In this second part of our conversation, we talk in more detail about the stories themselves.

Jonathan Sircy: If readers were to check out one representative story from the collection, which one should it be and why? 

Chad Chisholm: This is a hard question. All of the stories are Marc’s stories, and they were sort of like his children. Well, because I am his editor, I feel like his children have become mine, and it is hard for a doting stepfather to choose.

I suppose I would start with “Lloyd,” the first story for a couple of reasons. When Marc shared “Lloyd” with me, that was when I saw he had a gift. You have to understand, I had looked at drafts of Between Shadows, and I was sort of put off by some of the uncanny things I read, though I did recognize Marc had talent. “Lloyd” was such a beautiful story, though it is heartbreaking; I really loved the story when Marc presented it to me at my house in Holly Springs. I encouraged Marc to continue his stories, which he had started as a side project to Between Shadows.

Another story I love is “Werewolf Hollow.” This was the first story Marc turned over to me as an editor, and he really listened to my feedback. I think it is an excellent story, and he was able to publish it in an international journal. “Werewolf Hollow” is a good story, but I also love it because I remember how it grew and grew between workshops Marc and I had at my house: those memories return each time I look at the story. Marc did not make any money from the story, but he got letters and emails from people in the United Kingdom, Norway, and different parts of the United States. I know Marc loved the feedback, and I was super happy for him that he was getting response from readers outside of our little coterie.

I could go on, but that would not be fair. Readers should determine what Marc’s stories mean for them without me putting my thumb on the scale. That said, I have a least favorite story in the collection, but I will not say what it is. You can ask, but I will never say. I thought a couple of times about taking the story out, but Marc wanted it there. Anyway, that is just one story, and I honored his wishes.

JS: The stories frequently made me uncomfortable. I don’t think this is criticism. It testifies to something powerful at work in these stories, though I wouldn’t call it pleasant. Would Ridge have been disappointed at this reaction? As you read and worked on these stories, what did you feel?

CC: Good question. When I read Marc, I am stepping into another world, there is no question about it. Part of the reason is that these stories happened maybe 50 years ago, give or take, and things were different. Marc is truthful to his time period, and that takes some getting used to. The stories also deal with teenaged boys, so you have your issues there as well.

That said, neither genre nor historical setting is the half of it. If I were traveling to another planet or a fantasy realm, I would react differently to those stories. But the uncanny has a different effect when the fictional world bears a resemblance to ours but is different. Marc is doing something similar to maybe Edgar Allan Poe, Ray Bradbury, Cormac McCarthy, or Barry Hannah where the world is similar but different to ours, and that makes a difference in how we read the stories. It certainly does for me. Marc gives us an inverted view of our own world, and it becomes quite natural for the reader to feel a little uncomfortable…at least to a point.

Marc would expect such reaction, and he would remind us that human beings are often drawn to the ‘weird’ and many of us (if not all of us) get great pleasure from such encounters: it’s why we like clowns, haunted houses, roleplay or cosplay, manga comics, Tim Burton movies, etc. So no, Marc would not be disappointed, though he would hope that we would see the different layers within the stories that capture the beauties of smalltown life in 1960s America, the ethos of place and the higher values espoused by the characters and people.

I think Marc has several John Updike types of moments that are pleasant (at least to me). There is also a man’s search for theology: for his science of God. Marc wouldn’t want us to feel uncomfortable there. It all depends on which of Marc’s layers we are discussing, and these layers often interlock. Anyway, that is my experience; other readers will have different interpretations, which is how it should be.   

JS: What are the similarities or differences between Noble Stories and Ridge’s novel Between Shadows? What are your thoughts on the novel?

CC: Marc published Between Shadows after we had been friends a few years, which was still relatively early in our collaboration. Much of Noble Stories has its source in Between Shadows since Marc had backstories, some of which he had to trim from the novel to make it work. Needless to say, Marc had to write the novel to have the materials for the story collection because the two projects existed in a creative symbiosis for him.

As for my thoughts on Between Shadows, Marc was influenced by classical mythology and Christian theology (though he often questioned and struggled with Augustinian concepts), but what might not be apparent is how much Marc loved Arthurian literature: Marc was very influenced by the legendarium of Camelot and the romance literature surrounding the characters. I am unsure if readers see the Arthurian connections with Between Shadows, but the fundamental lesson surrounding the tragedy of Camelot is that the difference between one shining moment and no moment at all isn’t nothing but everything. Marc was conscious of this when he wrote Between Shadows.

That being said, I did have some issues with the novel that I will not discuss in depth here. I will say that had I had the influence with Marc when he was writing Between Shadows as I had when he wrote “Werewolf Hollow” and other Noble Stories, I think some of the mistakes Marc made could have been avoided. That said, if you like paranormal romances or modern gothic thrillers, I think you will like Between Shadows. It is a highly imaginative work.

JS: The collection’s final words are, “I Believe.” How is this a fitting thematic statement for the collection? 

CC: “I believe” could invoke the Nicene Creed, but I’m unsure. After all, Marc could have incorporated other creedal references into his epilogue if this was his intent. Here is my take. Marc illustrates the conversion of the unnamed narrator to a proto-Christian understanding about place and relationship to the world around us. We might call this a theology, though I am unsure Marc intends to convey that the narrator has grasped a developed “science of God” at this early stage of belief.

Marc and I had conversations about faith, and he seemed to struggle not so much with Saint Peter or Saint John, but more with Saint Augustine (though I believe Marc was largely reconciled with some Augustinian teachings when he finished the collection). Marc had backed away from the fundamentalism he was raised with, had fluctuated between agnosticism and spiritualism for a time, and then became interested in Eastern Christianity, contemplative approaches, and various mythologies. I believe Marc pushed off against this idea that a perfect doctrinaire understanding was necessary to be brought into the family of God (hence salvation) because that left too many people out. For example, what about those who have a cognitive disability or a mental illness who cannot grasp specific doctrines?

That said, Marc was always searching and growing in his faith. But if the Noble Stories narrator has come across a gateway theology, then what exactly is it? On this, your interpretation is as good as mine because I am not totally sure. I have a guess, and it is pure conjecture. Max Ehrmann, an American poet, penned a prose poem called “Desiderata” (Latin for ‘things desired’) that isn’t academically studied, but Marc knew the poem, referenced quotes on printouts, etc. In the poem, Ehrmann says, “You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here”; the poem says other things that really ought not to be contentious but are definitely controversial with many of our current tempestuous cliques. (For example, I knew people in graduate school who religiously watched the show Life After Humans and self-loathingly viewed their own species as some sort of planetary virus.)

I think Marc conveys that the Noble Stories narrator has grasped a theology that is similar to Ehrmann who says “be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.” I think what Ehrmann expresses here is similar to what Marc wants to convey. Perhaps Marc is showing us baby steps towards mature belief, but that this likewise takes a maturing choice…to believe. But again, this is conjecture on my part.

JS: A couple of these pieces were published here on Freedom’s Hill. In the interview at the end of the book, Ridge expresses skepticism about publishing anything online unless he knew the editors! Why was Freedom’s Hill the right place for these stories?

CC: Great question! Me, evidently.

The story surrounding the publication of “Lloyd” and “Learning to Forgive” (or “Lloyd Returns”) on Freedom’s Hill Primer is interesting for me.

Marc had written his stories years before, and he never found a publisher for them. Editors liked the stories but said they weren’t what they needed. So, Marc had drawered these stories. Meanwhile, my colleagues and I had created an online journal without content, so this was an excellent opportunity for Marc and I to collaborate as we had in the olden days. I was teaching a class where students edit content for publication on this new digital journal, and Marc agreed to let us workshop his stories. Whatever his reservation about online publication sites, he trusted I would make sure students respected his fiction, and I believed his stories were perfect for the new online journal. I think the students found it an interesting experience—editing these stories, contacting Marc and discussing edits and changes with him, etc.—and Marc had more readers for his fiction. The students also got a taste of contemporary literature and a nudge to pursue it. In all, it felt like a win all around.